#7 - Martin Lanni: CUAS stress-testing, decision chains and drone security

Episode Summary

On this episode I sat down with Martin Lanni and discussed the decision-chain for Counter-UAS, education in the area, the current landscape and how customers in the Middle East test the effectiveness and assurance of Counter-UAS systems. While this isn't an introduction to Drone Security, it's more of a deep dive on the current UAS/CUAS security environment and hugely relevant to anyone in the space. MARTIN LANNI: Martin has an incredible background in all things aviation, from hunting submarines with the Royal Navy to daring Search and Rescue missions (over 500+!) across the UK. Martin has managed joint-taskforce Counter-Terrorism missions with NATO and played a major role in the massive-scale London Olympic Games 2012 security project. To say Martin is an aviation expert is truly an understatement; it was an honor to have him on board and discuss some of the key concepts in Drone Security today. Translating much of his experience to defending against maligned drones, Martin heads up Quantum Aviation as the CEO. Within drones, Martin has witnessed Counter-UAS technology stress-tested in the Middle East, designed decision-chain playbooks for reacting to malicious drones and educates various customers on the important concepts behind drone security. I love that although from a military background, Martin constantly eludes to prioritising innovation and warns against the over-regulation and restriction of the industry. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Episode Notes

To connect with Martin:

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Post-show notes:
[00:55] Introduction - Martin explains his experience of a helicopter pilot chasing submarines around in Russia, Search and Rescue and Counter-Terrorism in the Navy
[03:45] Airspace Security - air security for the London 2012 Olympics
[06:45] Measuring Success - military operations and defining their success
[10:25] Decision Chains & Future Event Security / Commercial Drone Threat
[12:30] The 'so whats' - air defense decisions & collateral effects of jamming
[13:30] Assurance in Counter-UAS systems - recognised bodies and its threat to the industry
[17:35] More than the box - experience and decision making over just ‘the tech’
[20:10] Standardisation/Regulatory in the CUAS field
[24:50] Stress Testing CUAS - quantums experience in the Middle East
[28:00] Quantums beginnings - the quest for comprehensive CUAS capability
[31:15] Staying credible - informing the customer base instead of just selling them things
[35:18] Direct vs Indirect education - awareness of the CUAS industry
[37:30] The Rescue on Ben Nevis - a story from Martin’s experience with SAR
[42:06] Situational awareness for UAS operators
[45:00] Close-proximity vs traditional aviation - UTM and ATM
[49:08] Quantum strategies - autonomous drones vs individual rogue operators
[52:28] CUAS products and regulatory restrictions - UK laws and regulations, use of the RF spectrum, range of jammers vs ratio-based jamming and common customer questions
[55:25] The future of jamming - Quantum’s discussion with UK CAA on
[56:21] DroneHunter & non-regulatory-banned methods of CUAS - use cases for non-LE entities looking to track and apprehend offending drone operators
[1:03:23] CUAS guys are drone lovers too - regulations and their restrictions on recreational fliers vs focusing on maligned drone use
[1:07:15] Knee-jerk reactions - drones & the rapid introduction of regulation by law makers

Links from the Episode:

Article 5

CPNI - Center for Protection of National Infrastructure (run a catalogue of approved equipment/hardware - creating set of standards for detection equipment and counter-measures)

DJI Airsense & ADS-B

Project Wing in Canberra, Australia

Fortem radar capability

UK Civil Aviation Authority


FAA - using counter-measures at a local level/ DHS

Tony Reid - High School/Primary School UAS safety

In this episode we only lightly touched on the deal around 'range' in RF jamming, vs as Martin mentioned, the 'ratio'. If you have a good technical insight into this and would like to share it on the podcast, please contact us at hello@dronesec.xyz.